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To all: I want to thank many people for helping me out last week. I've gotten CVSNT configured satisfactorily and some documentation written. I've tested it with a couple of tech writers, and it seems to be ok. I'd just like to respond to a few leftover messages from last week. >> From: "Oliver Giesen" <ogware at gmx.net> > Well there's still a difference between simply using a tool and > teaching others to use it... I have my own experiences with > teachers that turned out to be only marginally more advanced than > myself in the matter they were teaching and none of them were > particularly satisfying experiences. I'm well aware of this problem and try not to look too stupid too often when dealing with clients. The only additional point I would add is that prior familiarity with a tool doesn't guarantee the ability to teach anything about it. Using and teaching are often completely different skills. >> From: "Oliver Giesen" <ogware at gmx.net> > Yes and no. Try running cvs -n up -k? inside a sandbox and you > will get a list of the available -k options (aka "file flags", aka > "file options", aka "keyword expansion modes", aka "hell knows > what else"). Thanks for this suggestion. It was a big help. >> From: "Gabriel Genellina" <gagenellina at softlab.com.ar> > The short help doesnt explain well, but try rereading the > documentation for the checkout command at > <http://www.cvsnt.org/manual/html/checkout.html> The online documentation appears to be identical to the pdf file (cvs.pdf), which itself appears to have been modified to incorporate CVSNT features. >> From: "Arthur Barrett" <arthur.barrett at march-hare.com> > >I checked this page out and see that the book costs > >$147.00, but there's no link to purchase it. > There should be a big blue box on the right side of the page > labelled "buy now". Can you send me a screenshot of how your > browser is rendering that? I found the big blue "Buy Now" box without any trouble, but it lists the CVS Suite as a product, not the "All about CVS" manual. Actually, I'm confused about the product offering. Is the manual part of the CVS Suite? Or are they two separate products, each costing $147? >> From: "Arthur Barrett" <arthur.barrett at march-hare.com> > As a fellow "consultant" you may be interested to know that March > Hare have for many years done consulting and outsourced > development/maintenance of software projects. For legal reasons > we cannot and do not ever take on a project without version > control, purchasing tools on behalf of the client is factored in > to our prices for such work. It's pretty easy to discredit any > competing "consultants" who do not use it/instist on it. I'm not sure why you put "consultant" in quotes, but I've been an independent consultant since 1978, which I suspect is longer than many consultants here. I agree with your philosophy about source control, especially for software development projects, but keep in mind the situation is less clear in this case because it's a documentatioin project. Also, I'm getting paid by the hour, so I have no way of bundling costs into a project. >> From: Bo Berglund <bo.berglund at telia.com> > >Anyway, prompted by your comments, I experimented with it, and > >discovered a bug: > > > >> cvs co sampleb\common\test.txt > > > >errors out with the message: > > > >> cvs [checkout aborted]: no such directory `sampleb\common' > > > >However, the following do work: > > > >> cvs co sampleb\common/test.txt > >> cvs co sampleb/common/test.txt > >> cvs co sampleb\common > >> cvs co sampleb/common > > > >(In each case, run the test with no existing sampleb subdirectory > >below your working directory.) > Can't repeat...: > C:\Temp\cvstst>cvs co ModuleXX\Source\source.txt > U ModuleXX/Source/source.txt > C:\Temp\cvstst>cvs co ModuleXX/Source/source.txt > U ModuleXX/Source/source.txt > C:\Temp\cvstst>cvs co ModuleXX/Source\source.txt > U ModuleXX/Source/source.txt > C:\Temp\cvstst>cvs co ModuleXX\Source/source.txt > U ModuleXX/Source/source.txt > All permutations yield the exact same checkout of one single file > in its expected location... The bug that I identified occurs only when the sampleb directory doesn't already exist. If sampleb exists, then all forms work the same. >> From: Bo Berglund <bo.berglund at telia.com> > What I meant was that to work as a consultant with the task of > implementing something (be it CVSNT or whatever) is in my view > requiring a certain expertise in the subject. I would be grossly > disappointed if I hired a person to implement something and I > then learned that he had to go study the manual and in general > learn himself about the object of the consultancy during the > consultancy hours. > It is an entirely different thing to start using a system like > CVSNT yourself or as an employee where obviously you are not an > expert until some time has passed. > What I pointed out was caused by the fact that you gave me the > impression that you had sold your service to someone while not > knowing the subject yourself... Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify. I've worked for this client for a long time now, and when this very complicated documentation project came up, I immediately suggested source control software, something that they hadn't considered for a documentation project. I volunteered to set the whole thing up for them, as any good consultant would. They would not have considered hiring a new consultant just to do one task - set up source control. I didn't sell myself as a cvs consultant; it just came up in the normal course of business. Basically, I do whatever the client wants, and if it involves researching and implementing some new system or application software system, I do it. >> From: Bo Berglund <bo.berglund at telia.com> > Or in fact reading it all, since he is posing as a CVSNT > consultant.... I'm not sure why you're being nasty. I've never posed as anything, either to my client or to this list. I'm a completely open person with no secrets from anyone. You can google me if you want and find out just about everything about me from my various web sites. (If you do that, please check out my web site, http://www.GenerationalDynamics.com .) >> From: "Bo Berglund" <bo.berglund at telia.com> > Please do not reply to me in private. I communicate with the CVSNT > community exclusively via the newsserver at news.cvsnt.org. Sorry. I responded to the list, and copied the message to you, since I was addressing you particularly. Nothing that I wrote to you was private, but I won't do it again. >> From: "Bo Berglund" <bo.berglund at telia.com> > >Scenario: > > > >1) Create a new file > >2) cvs add file > >3) cvs unedit file > Why do you do this? It is clearly not even in CVS yet so doing an > unedit before committing it would be a procedural error, right? > You should skip this step and you will be fine. >From a philosophical point of view, it's not quite right to blame the user when the software doesn't work, even when the user made a mistake. Well written software should be able to handle any garbage that the user throws at it, and always do the right thing, which may simply be to display an error message. New users of any software package will always do things that the implementor didn't expect, and the software should handle such unexpected things as gracefully as possible. Sincerely, John John J. Xenakis Xenakis Consulting Services Inc. 44 Dinsmore Ave #304 Framingham, MA 01702 Phone: 508-875-4266 E-mail: john at jxenakis.com http://www.jxenakis.com a.a