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>reward well written FOSS software projects then it will lead to more >well written FOSS software, if people reward poorly written, I agree with you, I was just talking about what I found in many shops using cvs/cvsnt - I am not saying that's how it should be. It was not criticism, just a remark. > It does have one - it's called Workspace manager (actually it's changed If so it should be advertised more - from the site I got the impression it's more a useful tool that a fully-fledged client. Probably I am wrong, but that was my impression. >activities using CVSNT then there are enormous benefits to your employer >supporting the project financially - they are already receiving the Again, I agree, but, for example, I do not sign off expenses. And even it I could, if my developers complains about using cvs via command line is too difficult or error prone, and they need a GUI client, within the budget constraints I have to decide what to buy. I have to ensure code gets properly stored in the repository, and my priorites go to weaker side. That's why I said if the server work flawlessy, I may be forced to invest money to the GUI client side. For example one of the reason we never moved to Subversion is it lacks a decent GUI windows client. That's why I said it would be easier to ask my management to buy CVSNT Suite if it would resolve both side of the equation, feeding CVSNT development and fulfilling our developers needs. > FOSS software and much less innovation (look at MySQL for what happens - Here I do not agree with you, innovation happens when there is competition, FOSS revived competition but innovation is not FOSS specific. > If I've made a few readers stop thinking 'someone else can pay for it' And you are totally right. Too often FOSS is perceived as "free of charge" more than anything else. It is part of its success, but it can be one of the major drawbacks. -- Luigi D. Sandon "Arthur Barrett" <arthur.barrett at march-hare.com> wrote in message news:mailman.562.1223572476.1523.cvsnt at cvsnt.org... Luigi, A part of my job is to ensure that our loyal FOSS community are advocating on the projects behalf in their organisation - hence my e-mail. > The problem is that some companies may be induced to buy a cvs client > instead of a cvsnt suite package - especially Windows > developers - because > the os server works well, Tony has offered to start writing serious bugs into every new release, with automatic expiration timers on them so they all 'begin' after you've finished your testing/deployment. Yes this is a joke and not serious - I'm illustrating the problem with your argument. If people reward well written FOSS software projects then it will lead to more well written FOSS software, if people reward poorly written, closed-source buggy software they will get more poorly written closed-source buggy software. > IMHO cvsnt suite would be much more interesting if it could > offer a good > client (not custom version of os packages) bundled, especially if it > integrated the administrative features of Workspace Manager. It does have one - it's called Workspace manager (actually it's changed its name to CVS Suite Studio). You can checkout, import (just drag and drop), set permissions, commit, revision graph etc etc. But I think you are missing the point - if you earn a wage for your activities using CVSNT then there are enormous benefits to your employer supporting the project financially - they are already receiving the benefits and I am encouraging those on the frontline to advocate for the project and make the case. Much other software you have to pay for well before you learn the limitations/problems - with FOSS of course it's the other way around - but if people do not support the companies that make the software available it means that in future there will be much less FOSS software and much less innovation (look at MySQL for what happens - a great FOSS product is now not FOSS). Another way of expressing what you are saying is: we'll spend money on tool xyz because the company that paid for the programmer to write it don't offer it for free. Or put another way: if you take away the free downloads of CVSNT and only offer each new bug fix in compiled form for $5 or $25 or $250 then we'll pay it - but only if you give us no other option. My preference is to let those who like CVSNT, and use it in a paying job to contribute/pay for it. If only 1% of people downloading CVSNT from our own web site in 1 year bought 1 copy of CVS Suite we could quadruple our staff and provide much more innovation. If I've made a few readers stop thinking 'someone else can pay for it' and start thinking 'maybe the company I work for can buy a copy or three' then I've done what I wanted to do. Regards, Arthur Barrett